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14-05-2010
180 post(s)
Well that's better, Christopher. more concise. Point taken about the experimentation. So far. So good. Having said that, I find the expression [b][i]"the current cast of characters floating around PH"[/i][/b] frankly insulting. Do you include yourself among this ragged crew? Shall we go down a list asking you one by one who you approve of and who is just plain dull??? I think you're opening a can of worms there, Chris - be careful. edited by Furachan on 14/05/2010
14-05-2010
135 post(s)
Well the current cast of characters are very few, isn't that the problem. It's only normal that you are seeing the same kind of image again as it's the same person taking them. We all have our styles and I can understand you getting bored by watching the same thing over and over again.
14-05-2010
142 post(s)
[quote=prezntime]That's it, color pics...that will solve the problem. The site is grey, because that is the sites color. It should be more colorful, as seen in Steves example above, but the reality is, color really has nothing to do with PH's overall inactivity. The problem, as I see it, is the lack of developement of PH's members.[/quote] Chris, the development of PH's member is not a problem, I would suspect it is a belated [i]CONSEQUENCE[/i] of the actual problem. I totally agree with you when you state that Holik lacks diversity but at the end of the day, when you dare looking at which diversity we miss, I guess you would hardly point your finger at BW portrait/street. Coincidentally, when we list all the one time participants that left or are now sleepers, you soon notice there is an abundance of color photographers. Flashy Yanseiler, Santi (he posted a truly magnificent serie on circus though received little feedback), Alsom (I know he is lurking... Hiya, Alain ;)...), Luis Afonso (pls come back, Luis! I promise I won't pull your leg again with that rock in the foreground), the great Claude Renault, Shailendra-the-master-of-blue-color, Mark Panszky, Darren, Valeria, Cheuk Hin, etc. We lost more color operating photogs than BW, I am sure you will agree with this point. There are other such coincidences that maybe will make the penny drop. They say you can't catch many flies with vinegar, right? Now if you look at PH galleries, you cannot help thinking it is mainly a BW aficionado site, the honeypot looks pretty empty for Winnie-the-color-Poohtographer. Excuse me for generalizing but browsing PH is such a standardized experienced that I feel I am looking at that same BW photo I have already seen in the previous pages, , that is what boredom means to me. How would you catch flies from other species? The trend is so pregnant that even mainly color photographers like Francis are desaturating their pics for any reason, mostly for the bad ones. I think I may confidently write this because we have discussed about it. Acknowledging that there is little variety because the current cast of characters is scarce may be the first step of diagnosing the apparent reason, but this may also be the hidden layer of a silent selective process... think twice. And yes, -this is for Steve-, I claim that BW is safer in [i]THIS[/i] site than color because it will blend in more easily than color, once you look at the percentage of BW shots that have been posted in the last 6 months. It is also easier to get a certain type of "mood" with BW, although repetitive. We could discuss that but I would state that many of your shots you've posted on Holik are actually color shots that were given BW cosmetics (not talking about technique, but structure). There is for my taste an actual BW "semiology" which doesn't fit in with some of your uploads, some of them having the mood, but not the structure. I also think I can write this part with some confidence, even though that also discussed [i] but not with the main culprit[/i]. edited by Luko on 14/05/2010
14-05-2010
180 post(s)
THIS is the Luko I have been telling you guys about. Christopher, LISTEN to this man. His formulation about the downward spiral into BW, the "grey descent" is profound and even hinges on semiotics. He is absolutely goddamn right - I own up to desaturizing shots as a halfway measure, a sort of "apology for color". Can you imagine that? I'm telling you Chris, you're oversimplifying on the one hand (while seriously ****ing some people off with your snarky tone) and underestimating what others are trying to tell you that - our sad, desperate espousal of all things GREY is a kind of capitulation, an effeminacy if you will. We have shrunk ourselves so as to disappear inside this neat ersatz MAGNUM cocoon. Luko is righteous and he is on the money, and not for the first time, either. May it not be the last. Tomorrow I meet with my brother Shailendra who is a natural COLOR genius (as Luko notes), an I will once again prevail upon him to grace these pages with his shots. Sometimes I don't know why I even bother...
14-05-2010
137 post(s)
I have been more than polite for some time now...I've tried to prevent certain unfortunate episodes; for instance, Rafals departure... which, in my estimation was a great loss. I've seen some desperate attempts to correct the lack of activity; Mr. Polonaise for instance (who I like, but knew he would cause quite a stink...he's a radical by nature). All the while, I've seen a lack of true honesty when it comes to the photos or projects here on PH. I mean, there are some comments about not quite getting the shot, or thinking it might be better in color/B&W etc; which can be constructive, but not as effective as the GONG Charlie Parker received in Kansas City at the Reno club...he went on to become God in quite a few peoples opinion. Jo Jones' cymbal might not be the only reason Bird went on to become great, but sometimes people just need a swift kick in the ass. And if we are going to point to relevant names, Sohrab was great at this when he made comments. So yes, I might be snarky at times, but do YOU (everyone reading this) want me to believe that there never is a sarcastic comment floating from your lips? I seriously doubt that. I dont waste my breath, or horrible typing skills, on people I dont care about...or in who I dont see any potential. Also, to be honest, I think Francis you're easy to **** off. I mean, sometimes I find myself being overly careful when writing to you because I'm worried that you'll think I'm attacking you. It's actually a drag. I dont, nor ever have I had any hard feeling towards you...so I hope this stops all of that. As for the color/B&W thing. I believe that my opinion is the more complicated idea. One, it has more to do with the psychology of the people on this site, as opposed to just the visual impression of the gallery. I think that if we had a photographer post some wetplate portraits, the response would be incredible even though the photographs were in B&W. For me, the diversity of content is what really matters, not just the tone or color (not saying that's exactly what you're implying, but...). A site can work with all B&W photos, but the quality really needs to be there. I do support more color though; I mean, I'm working on a color project of my own...and that is significant because I'm almost always shooting in B&W. Also, I think the grey background of the site lends itself to the impression that things are quite dull here on PH...We need to liven up the site as a whole. While I agree with you Luko on many of your points, I will say the development of the photographers on this site should include experimentation with color as well as other visual ideas. I myself am trying different types of color film, different formats...flash, no flash etc. Continued...
14-05-2010
137 post(s)
I should say that, I'm completely unhappy with all of my own photos up to date; I only like the photos I haven't developed yet. So I dont think that I'm the Bee's Knee's by any means... Let me see if I can sum up: 1) We need more communication from the mods 2) We need more development from the current active photographers. A. Development includes use of color, different formats...styles...ideas etc... 3) We need more active participation from those who have joined the site. 4) We need to spice up the look of the site. A. Change the color format/background B. Enhance the viewing flow C. Reformulate the intention of this site. Is it still going to be focused only on projects? D. Incorporate the ideas of the members such as Steve... 5) We need to brainstorm about how to strengthen the community; I want to feel like I'm sitting in my living room with you guys. 6) We need more honesty in the comments posted; true gritty honesty...to allow critical analysis of our progress with the most important part of this site, the photographs. 7) We need less snarky comments from Chris. 8) We need less sensitivity from Francis. 9) Apparently Luko is God. 10) Where is Animesh? 11) Finally, this needs to be fun again... :report:
15-05-2010
180 post(s)
Now you're talking, Chris. Consciously or not some remarks have gotten through to you, and I don't hear that unfortunate "The current cast of..." What I do hear now is your intelligence and sensitivity coming out and it's hard to disagree with your list of "wishes". To quote the perspicacious Luko (and no, he is not God...-;o), I agree with everything you said. Amen edited by Furachan on 15/05/2010
15-05-2010
75 post(s)
Ok! I'm happy to see that it's possible to be not agree, to discus, and after to be more or less agree and try to work together. I think that PH has demonstrate that can have a serious discusion. The discousion has no stop yet, this is just the beggining, but now it's time to work too! We need more post and more activity to comment and critic pictures. Feed backs it's necesery, good or not, but please now it's time to work. The galery lacks of new pictures and new comments. Ok! I'm conscient that the originals and creative projets may will arrive later, because we have to work on it and we can't create something quickly...but while waiting to this "creative boum moment": UP LOAD, AND COMMENT PICTURES! :-) Hasta la vista, PS: I propose. Luko it's Jesus, Francis, Stevev and Nono the profets, Animesh one of the angels, Chris the Che Guevara (I'm not sure that Che Guevara was in the Bible, but this is an original edition)....and Simon is God (he is not here, but we feel that you are somewhere in PH) ;-) edited by Xavis on 15/05/2010
16-05-2010
31 post(s)
Brilliant post. The 11 points has hit the nail on the ahead! Ditto No 7.
17-05-2010
290 post(s)
Xavis said [b]PS: I propose. Luko it's Jesus, Francis, Stevev and Nono the profets, Animesh one of the angels, Chris the Che Guevara (I'm not sure that Che Guevara was in the Bible, but this is an original edition)....and Simon is God (he is not here, but we feel that you are somewhere in PH) ;-) [/b] Sorry i am not much in religion :) Sorry guy's it is a bit complicate for me to enter in the dance. i have some problem to solve here in Bkk with some job. and also a bit worry with the politic event here. this make some complication for some of my project here in BKK. but i am around looking and reading. kiss you all Simon
18-05-2010
180 post(s)
[quote=flydragon]Xavis said [b]PS: I propose. Luko it's Jesus, Francis, Stevev and Nono the profets, Animesh one of the angels, Chris the Che Guevara (I'm not sure that Che Guevara was in the Bible, but this is an original edition)....and Simon is God (he is not here, but we feel that you are somewhere in PH) ;-) [/b] Sorry i am not much in religion :) Sorry guy's it is a bit complicate for me to enter in the dance. i have some problem to solve here in Bkk with some job. and also a bit worry with the politic event here. this make some complication for some of my project here in BKK. but i am around looking and reading. kiss you all Simon[/quote] Salut Simon! We're all concerned about you over there, man! You take care of yourself and stay away from the commercial center until everything clears up. Don't worry too much about this complicated exchange. Just keep in mind that the responses from Chris, Luko, Steve etc. have been brilliant and show a serious commitment to Photoholik. It has been a valuable discussion, a test of commitment, and a bit of "provocation" on my part, of course... But seriously, don't be a hero over there (like Kevinos, who took a close up picture of that fallen general the other day on TE!) - keep your head down and we'll discuss participation again later. Take care and all the best from everyone, Francis
18-05-2010
137 post(s)
Here, here Francis. Simon, be careful please. Best wishes for you friend.
18-05-2010
290 post(s)
Hi there :) thx for worry but please dont !! I am not a stupid farang who want play the war photographer in the land of smile, i am also not interested to take picture from, people fighting, that make me so sad to see this. I feel not excited to shoot some bus on fire in the street. I hope those Sunday photographer will understand that the street of Bangkok are not a kids garden now, but some place look like a war zone. I hope that Bangkok and Thailand will be in peace soon as possible, and we could walk and keep shooting street normal life. even they are red or yellow PEACE. this topic is interesting and i like to read it, just my mood for now is not much on this. i am so sorry. hope you will understand. Kisses from bkk
19-05-2010
163 post(s)
Hi all, We are working on the Steve idea. Thank you Steve for the proposition, you're a real worker 'on' and 'for' ph ;) Quite a nice discussions, and let me say that some of us, for some reasons, lost the idea of what the words GIVE, SHARING, EXCHANGE, means. Yet, this is the basis of 'community' means, real or virtual. About the lack of diversity, I'm sharing what is saying. So, I'm for color, peace, diversity, sex drug and rock'n roll. :smoke: Nothing about religion ;) Enjoy, and put your sunglasses :cool: the sun is back ...