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05-08-2009
290 post(s)
The spirit of the site have changed with the arrival of certain members. We have decided to ban a member. It is not a pleasant spot, some are certainly going to complain. We had managed to create a certain harmony, we would like to keep it.
05-08-2009
16 post(s)
Think some broader explanation is needed. May I ask what was the reason of the ban ? What exactly "the spirit of the site" means ? And what kind of harmony is obligatory here ? Am I to understend there are some other rules - not only expressed in Photoholic Guidelines ? Maybe it's worthy to add some lines to the Photoholic Guidelines just in case another troublesome member will occur ? How can I be sure I'm not acting against "the spirit of the site" and am keeping in line with the acceptable harmony ? I'm using black frames for exaple which weren't aproved by some members. Are they alowed here or not ? Should I use only white frames ? Think I'm too young here as a member or too old as a woman to undestand why you wish no multiplity, variety, formal experiments and artistic provocations here. Always thought them to be a trigers of development for my skills and horizons, an so on. Not that I'm intending to produce some myself (I'm not that good) but I think one learns a lot observing tryials of others and making effort to undestand. Be thankful if somebody will enlight me. Maybe I'm amongst the "certain members". Am I ? Should I go away ? edited by polter on 05/08/2009 edited by polter on 05/08/2009 edited by polter on 05/08/2009
05-08-2009
290 post(s)
Spirit, harmony or guideline if you like more. Holik is a community, and as in every community there is of rules of conduct to be respected. For the artistic part, we encourage the members to be creative, of course. but also for thi part we have a guideline. creativity, and also quality of the picture. nobody will be banned for a black frame, come on we are not that stupid. PHOTOHOLIK is not a hard disk where people can deposite ton of pictures, that why we talk about harmony and spirit we just try to make this place comfortable, and a place to show your work. No site or the members are going to feel assaulting by the others. and to finish no you dont have to go away, why that ?? if like us you follow the guideline. regards Simon
05-08-2009
89 post(s)
Right on Simon, better late than never, nevertheless thankfully it wasn't too late:banhim:
05-08-2009
16 post(s)
Mhm. So you feel comfortable now, as you get rid of Polonais ? Have to say I feel contrary. I feel contrary from the time I heard Francis saying: [i]"there is a gang here lately,(...) the George family of foul-mouthed banshees, including the charming Ninal who insulted the entire community in the foulest way in Polish. [b]Where the hell did you all come from all of a sudden, eh?"[/b][/i] Have to say I felt myself insulted with the above, as I do understand Polish and know NinaL insulted nobody. (Btw - I don't understand French - am I to think some members are insulting others or me in French ?). I feel uncomfortable and insulted as I think myself to be a member of this [b]gang[/b]. As it happens I'm a pupil just out of Polonais'es class of photography on TE. So I do think you don't like to have me around in Photoholic as well as you wish to have no some others here. Some who find George not insulting but very tallented and good hearted man with the great load of photographic profesional knowledge which he is trying to pass to the others in his maybe shoking for some but still generous, and good humoured mode. I met no profesionalist of his level so eager to explain and teach and help. I really come here to take some further lessons mostly from him... So I'm the part of [b]the gang[/b] not invited here. Why haven't you added in guidelines Photoholic is only one style and one teacher's school ? There would be no missunderstanding. And I don't know how it is possible some can be insulted here some can be not :( Well I'm not good at explaining my feelings and feel ill while fighting - so I'll better surrender and leave at the very begining. regards T.
05-08-2009
16 post(s)
[quote=Furachan]Teresa: I will be as precise and perhaps brutal as my good friend Simon was vague and diplomatic. During the short period that Polonaise was among us, he managed to personally insult, injure or otherwise rub the wrong way a good number of people. We are NOT talking about artistic "provocation" but personal provocation, and a haughty disdain which he brought down on this community at every opportunity. All the while "praising" us for being an elite, accomplished photo group, he would pour scorn upon us the next minute. No better example exists than his suicidal last project entitled "White Diapers". Do you know how many years some of us have heard G rave on about those of us who use white borders around our images? Do you know how often he mocked anyone who uses white borders as effeminate, as sissies whereas REAL MEN like himself would use thick BLACK borders. Of course one could just as easily point out to him that black borders often hype up pictures that would otherwise seem banal but...what's the point arguing with such a perverse character? He wold only turn it against you one month down the line. In his notes and alongside the photos in that last, fateful set, he managed to slip in all kinds of insults directed at various individuals here - anyone aware of his modus operandi could pick up on it. He mocked me about my forthcoming trip to Burma, he alluded to Simon sarcastically as a "lensman" an expression I often use, he obviously mocked in a very precise way Jim Portram who does use thick WHITE borders. And on and on. This is not artistic provocation, it is noting less than a twisted desire to wreak havoc right across the board, one of George's favorite pastimes. George G was a one-man reign of terror - in his fake innocent way, he p****ed all over this community repeatedly, retreating behind shocked humor when things turned nasty, or letting his followers pick up the fight for him, or even in the sad case of one individual, sacrifice themselves for him. To some he is some kind of "Hero" or "Guru". Unfortunately for many of us here his charisma wore much too thin... Bottom line: I know for a fact that he angered a lot of serious and dedicated members of PH and put people off from wanting to upload, including myself. After repeated warnings, he was let go. It is no cause for rejoicing, but it is surely something that anyone more stable would have seen coming a mile away. I hope this clarified things a bit (sorry SImon for jumping in...) edited by Furachan on 05/08/2009 edited by Furachan on 05/08/2009[/quote]
05-08-2009
290 post(s)
[b]Stoooooooooooooop !!! and please Francis stop it !! [/b] There is no Gang here and no George family, This member have been banned for only one raison i told you Teresa. I am one of the Admin and one who took this decision Teresa. This is sad to ban a member i dont like this. we gave to warning to Georges about his attitude with other member. I respect him a photographer, but we had to take this desicion. edited by flydragon on 05/08/2009
05-08-2009
post(s)
[quote=flydragon]The spirit of the site have changed with the arrival of certain members. We have decided to ban a member. It is not a pleasant spot, some are certainly going to complain. We had managed to create a certain harmony, we would like to keep it.[/quote] Oui, Simon, explique-nous un peu mieux ce que veut dire "esprit PH". S'agit-il des photos vides d'émotions, montrant les silhouettes du dos dans des tunnels, innover en faisant ce qui était déjà fait dans les années 20, en faisant des contre-jour, en coupant les pieds et les têtes, en montrant les personnages dont on ne voit surtout pas le sourire ni le regard (oui, je pense qu'il ne faut pas que les gens photographiées regardent l'objectif, cela doit constituer une faute majeure) :oO !!! ??? Bannir Polonaise, qui est plus haut que tout l'esprit Photoholic confondu, ne peut entraîner que la baisse du niveau de cette plateforme. Polonaise est trop bon pour Photoholic, et je pense qu'il est trop bon pour poster ses photos sur Internet tout court. Quelques autres vont quitter PH par la suite. Vous resterez 4 ou 5, dont Simon, Francis et Luko, et vous allez avancer en groupe restreint, sans variété et innovation possible dans un site grand. Je trouve que Polonaise ne s'est pas mal conduit ici (je le connais assez bien pour savoir qu'il restait maître de soi là, où Francis pétait les plombs). Si vous l'avez viré, c'est parce que son niveau trop élevé vous gênait.
05-08-2009
post(s)
[quote=flydragon]The spirit of the site have changed with the arrival of certain members. We have decided to ban a member. It is not a pleasant spot, some are certainly going to complain. We had managed to create a certain harmony, we would like to keep it.[/quote] Yes, Simon, tell us a little better what it means "spirit PH. Is there any pictures of empty emotions, showing silhouettes back in tunnels, to innovate by doing what was done in 20 years, making against the light, cutting off feet and heads in showing the characters we do not particularly see the smile or the eyes (yes, I think it should be that people photographed look at the lens, it should be a major fault): oO! ? Polonaise ban, which is higher than the whole spirit Photoholic confused, can not involve only the lower level of this platform. Polonaise is too good for Photoholic, and I think it is too good to post the photos on the Internet at all. Some others will leave PH thereafter. You will stay 4 or 5, Simon Francis and Luko and you go forward in small groups, without variety and innovation possible in a large site. I think Polonaise has not behaved badly here (I know him well enough to know he was master of itself, where Francis was too nervoust-). If you have disabled his accound, it means for me his level was to high for you .
05-08-2009
290 post(s)
Nina nothing more to tell i wrote everything on my preview message. if you cant understand sorry for you. Yes maybe the level of the site is down for Polonaise. And if the level is also down for a artist like you, you beter have to go back to TE ;o) My personal opinion Nina is that you are Soooooo proud of you to see that your work is so banal !!!
05-08-2009
post(s)
[quote=flydragon]Nina nothing more to tell i wrote everything on my preview message. if you cant understand sorry for you. Yes maybe the level of the site is down for Polonaise. And if the level is also down for a artist like you, you beter have to go back to TE ;o) My personal opinion Nina is that you are Soooooo proud of you to see that your work is so banal !!![/quote] Maybe my photographs are banal but they are a human approach. Maybe they are not interesting enough for PH. Sorry to post some of them if they disturb you and some other. But the photographs of Polonaise are not banal at all. And, be honnest, Simon, and show me just ONE photo of you wich is not banal. Bye bye.
05-08-2009
16 post(s)
But Francis - you knew him so well from TE. Don't know how it has happened you've let hin in ? If you didn't you'd be comfortable here without interruption at all :). I do think there is no one way of art or of taking and presenting photos. And think George knows it very well. So that's why he sometimes uses also white frames for his presentations (check his TE gallery, as his galery on PH exists no more) :) And sorry, but it seems you have insulted me once more writing "George G was a one-man reign of terror - (...) letting his followers pick up the fight for him, or even in the sad case of one individual, sacrifice themselves for him. To some he is some kind of "Hero" or "Guru". Unfortunately for many of us here his charisma wore much too thin..." I bet you are thinking now George have sent mie to fight for him, and if I leave - you will say he sacrificed me ? Btw - can you name his followers ? Don't they should pack their goods ? From what you wrote above I do understand you and George are on very unfriendly terms (it cames from TE times I do suppose). But as it comes to me I'm not interested in personal quarrels. I'm interested in photography. I was many times cricitized by him - and felt not ofended, as usually I come to constatation he's got a right. Have you ever tried to look at the things from onother angle ? To take somebedy's advice doesn't meen you have to love him or even think him to be a sympathetic man. That's my oppinion and I'll stick to it. Still I do like George very much in spite of what you've said :)) Regards T.
05-08-2009
290 post(s)
[b]Nina [/b] I NEVER SAID GEORGES picture was banal, i said i repsect him as photographer, and i admit he his a good photogrpaher. the problem is not about this, this is just his attitude with the site. that all About my picture Nina i dont have anything to prove, i could show you so many picture i took with humain feeling, but this is another topic, then we pass Sorry if this decision about George made you made, but we had to do it. [b]Teresa[/b] This is not necesary to fight again here. the decision to ban Goerge is from US ADMIN, and Francis is not a admin of the site. then i think we should close this thread. Things have been done. some will approve some not !!! edited by flydragon on 05/08/2009
05-08-2009
post(s)
[quote=flydragon]Nina I NEVER SAID GEORGES picture was banal, i said i repsect him as photographer, and i admit he his a good photogrpaher. the problem is not about this, this is just his attitude with the site. that all About my picture Nina i dont have anything to prove, i could show you so many picture i took with humain feeling, but this is another topic, then we pass Sorry if this decision about George made you made, but we had to do it.[/quote] I am happy you that you think that Polonaise is a good photographer. But if he is not here, nobody can teach me something about the photography. So, ban me too.
05-08-2009
290 post(s)
Nina of course not I wont to ban you, no reason. if you dont have nothing to learn here from other member and feel not confortable, just ask the admin to close your count. You can always take correspondence courses with georges and by E-mail .
05-08-2009
33 post(s)
i don't know why anyone should feel insecure on this site and contemplate on quiting. i personally want those thinking of leaving to reconsider their position because you have no reason to. peace folks! i know and completely understand how some of you feel about george's outster, and this dicourse will never end - about whether it was right or wrong...and everyone is justified to hold on to their opinion about matters. its not a black and white world, and things are rather ambiguous. things are sublte. its beyond black and white borders. but sometimes we need to go with what we see and read, and having read his polemics and pointed remarks which definitely got very personal and by which i mean, it had nothing to do with photography - i don't see why such things should have been allowed to continue. my personal opinion completely, and i take all responsibility and blame for this, i was somehow led to feel that george was creating an atomosphere of antagonism on the site -as if, that was an end in itself for him. i am sure he could be a different person off the virtural world. who knows? and research has proven that you can be two different persons on line/ offline. ultimately people, i am only trying to make you think - and you are well within your rights to disagree. afterall, you will believe only what you want to believe in.
05-08-2009
2 post(s)
here we go again ... Mister P came here and did the same as he did on TE. Everybody knows that he likes polemics of course ! Most of the time arrogant.He never understand that his work cannot pleased everybody but that's life. I don't follow the point that he is a Master of Photography. He has done some nice photos but the rest, not my kind, and with a bad post processing. No emotions for me. Just photos taken during events so that is easy to play with people in this conditions. And photography is everything : portraits, tunnels, flowers, etc ... It is sad to see that people think that their are professionnal or perfect photographer, we all learn and still learn in my opinion and not only in photography. I find some comments on the threads very arrogant and the way some see the world is not like the way the others see it. Be tolerant and not arrogant, just take you camera, take photos and stop with this. Hope this thread will stop one day because I'm quite fed up to see the word POLONAISE written everywhere ... and that was one of the reason I leaved TE, so please ... My 2 cents Fred
05-08-2009
135 post(s)
everybody....take a deep breath and repeat after me: om is for gratitude ma is for moral dicipline ni is for tolerance and patience pad is for perseverence me is for concentration and hum is for whisdom http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJX0S3m1om0&feature=related
05-08-2009
89 post(s)
[quote=Styl_Nox] Hope this thread will stop one day because I'm quite fed up to see the word {banned word not allowed on photoholik ;-} written everywhere ... and that was one of the reason I leaved TE, so please ... My 2 cents Fred[/quote] Fred, with apologies for extending this thread ;-), I can guarantee you this will settle in the next couple of days and the site will go back to it's normal civil way. Please enjoy :gh: edited by Homerhomer on 05/08/2009
05-08-2009
44 post(s)
OK. I was reluctant to join this thread but have finally decided to say a few words [b]as a simple member of this community and from my very personal experience in this matter.[/b] I fee very sad about what happened. Nevertheless, I have to admit that I cannot really see what else could have been done at this point in time and one could see it coming from far for a while. Teresa, Nina, you know very well how much I love George's work as a photographer. We shared many good and less good moments before and I think we had respect for each other . You know much also I supported him together with you and others on TE during the last events there, no need to go into details, we all remember well. And I fought also privately by email too. But this time, here, on a much smaller site, where everything is more visible and based on a sense of sharing I think, that he went too far. Some responded to him in a harsher way than would have been necessary in the beginning, but the provocation came first from George. Now all the photographs and threads have gone. I had the time to follow many of them recently and I did not like the way George was, in almost each of his posts or comments, talking about the other members of the site in a negative way. Too smooth, to sharp, no saliva or blood, frames, and in general letting know clearly that he did not approve of most of what was going on here. The new members saluted as the savers etc. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion and strong discussions, even hot can be a plus and rejuvenating if done with a minimum of respect. For me, that minimum has been overstepped yesterday. But I had an exchange already a few days before on the matter where I tried to make him understand that he was exagerrating. [b][/b] George's new project : white diapers. Gorgeous photographs. I, and many more members were delighted. I put 2 of them in my favs. From photographic content I was and still am an admirer of his production. From the content of the note I was dismayed. The opinion on galleries exposing bad photography with big frames, that's fine for me, but a tad uninteresting. But using half of the note to make very pointed, sarcastic (easy to understand for anybody who have been a little while), alllusions to some of the members here, well, that is what I found not being in spirit of PH. Did you read it ? And in commenting that marvel of photograph on the birth of a child, we all know, I told him how wonderful it was. And how sad to have such a cheap context around it. The photography part, should remain photography. I do not find it pleasant anymore or funny (and God knows George could make me laugh a lot !), that every time there would be something sarcastic to read. Now I am asking, Nina, a simple question. If you think only George can teach you something why did you come here ? and why did George if this site is that bad ? It is your opinion, but do you realize how narrow minded it is ? You may admire him better than anybody else, but I do find your reaction is reaching a very egotistic level. George was warmly welcomed when he came, and most of the oldtimers here, knew him before you did. So again, why spend so much time in negativity ? I personally do find your statement rather insulting. Also, sorry to say, there were insults in one of the earlier threads, but let's water flow under the bridge. On yesterday's note I also said something about your tendence to leave comments in Polish, not very educated in my view, as the majority here does not speak it. This being said, thank you Prantik and Steve for your peaceful and balanced words. I wish for better times too and friendship. Sorry if this was a tad long, but it's the only way I know how to express myself. Best regards to all.