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10-02-2009
180 post(s)
My friends, this site of late is a bit like a warm, toasty living room, slightly musty perhaps where one sits alone watching the TV (a comedy re-run for example) while munching on some toast and cheese. It's all perfectly nice but it LACKS SOMETHING. And that something is RISK, compadres! Now before you feel insulted or aggrieved by what I am saying please understand that I include myself in this. Many of us have reached a stage where we can coast along with nicely framed shots, nice and easy, you know, one step close to DEATH! Now I care about this site, I have a personal vested interest in seeing it succeed, and I don't like it when it coasts along like this, somnolent and yawning. Comrades, we need to "tear at the fabric of our complacency" otherwise we're just peddling pretty pictures. Are we another TE? No, having made a recent visit there, I would not say that we are Trekearth v2.0, that would not be fair either to ourselves or to TE which has its own virtues. But we are in danger of sinking under the weight of our bourgeois baggage (I don't know how else to put it, sorry). I have intervened twice already at different junctures to try and get things moving on Holik. The latest was a couple of months ago where we had a discussion about the need for more genuine creativity, with some tough input from Luko among others as I recall. This plea is a continuation of that discussion, and here are some proposals, to which I hope you will add your own so we can REINVIGORATE this fine space and make it into a place we want to visit, contribute to more and hang out in. 1. MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT (under the guise of "projects" we are getting away with some pretty tepid uploads). I say: pretend every shot is a standalone on a photo editor's desk - does it have sufficient IMPACT? Does it make the viewer sit forward in his chair? NO? Then let's not bother. 2. LET'S MOVE UP TO 800 pixels - I know this sounds petty but I find there's a helluva a difference between 800 and 750 - that extra 50 pixels is mucho important in my humble view. At 750 landscapes, panoramic type shots and yes, many rangefinder shots suffer (unfairly). 3. BE ADVENTUROUS- let's vary the angle of the shot more, try something crazy, use a digicam with a flexible LCD and see where that leads us, shoot from the hip more (why not, bloody Alex Webb does it enough...). CLearly we need to break with our customs, our little sauces and familiar cocktails. We need to GROW. 4. CRITIQUE MORE: one trend I've noticed (and participated in )I consists in NOT COMMENTING on a pic that doesn't float your boat. WRONG! Worst thing we could do. We should speak out frankly at such times, it is the only way we can help the photog. By staying quite, we are behaving in a typical Japanese way (saying nothing and hoping the "bad thing" goes away). 5. SHOW SOME GUTS: this one ties in with No.3 above - let me give you a perfect example, quite recent too - our friend Brian who shoots in the wilds of NYC and New Jersey has recently started a project where he shoots flash into the faces of passing strangers in the street, a little bit a la Bruce Gilden. Okay, to be fair, the couple of shots I've seen so far are not all that great but boy do they show guts! Brian needs all our support, all our best advice and counsel because he is definitely stepping our of his comfort zone and deserves respect and encouragement. Okay. That's all for my tirade. Over to the rest of you god folks. Surely you must KNOW in your heart of hearts that I have identified a genuine problem. The solution lies in us all.
10-02-2009
49 post(s)
Well buddy, as you might write, no-one else is putting their head above the parapet so I will :looks: I won't comment about the attitude of individuals (beyond noting that we're a small community, mostly drawn from a gene pool of 'travel photographers' in the loosest sense: this could be one reason why things look familiar). I will comment about the site itself. Yes, 800 pixels or more would be nice but I guess that has technical (and perhaps cost implications) which are above my head. And we mustn't overlook that our friends offer and maintain the site for not a bean. Turning to the fundamental concept of the site, that of the project. I recall some discussions on TE a couple of years back where some of us felt constrained by the single image concept. A site offering a project-based theme seemed the answer. For some here, it has indeed proved the answer but I think they are quite few and far between (I could be wrong but it seems to me that the most successful here have worked - or are working - as at least semi-pros, used to greater discipline). Others (like me) just can't get to grips with shooting projects. Essentially, the rest of us end up with a collection of disparate, single images even when the intent was to create a coherent project. May I therefore propose that PH offers a separate gallery for individual images to complement the existing projects? I think we're old enough and wise enough not to let such a gallery replicate TE. And, while thinking out of the box, why not limit projects to no more than 10 images (as you hint, more sometimes means repetition if not quantity over quality)? A third PH offer (and I think it was suggested a year or so ago by someone) would be to introduce another gallery intended to represent long-term projects, compiled over months if not years (these should consist of at least 50 images). Just my two Eurocents. Happy for all I've said to be shot down. :yas: edited by El Inglés on 10/02/2009 edited by El Inglés on 10/02/2009
10-02-2009
75 post(s)
Francis has said: [color=#0000FF][i]4. CRITIQUE MORE: one trend I've noticed (and participated in )I consists in NOT COMMENTING on a pic that doesn't float your boat. WRONG! Worst thing we could do. We should speak out frankly at such times, it is the only way we can help the photog. By staying quite, we are behaving in a typical Japanese way (saying nothing and hoping the "bad thing" goes away).[/i][/color] I think that this one of the main things to change. I'm agree with you and I begin with my self...to critic more, and to critic also when I'm not agree with the picture. I think that this kind of critic it's the more complicated because we have to better analize the picture and what we think about it. At the same time as you say is the better way to improve the photog. I will do it better. I'm also completely agree with: [color=#0000FF][i]Comrades, we need to "tear at the fabric of our complacency" otherwise we're just peddling pretty pictures. Are we another TE? No, having made a recent visit there, I would not say that we are Trekearth v2.0, that would not be fair either to ourselves or to TE which has its own virtues. But we are in danger of sinking under the weight of our bourgeois baggage (I don't know how else to put it, sorry).[/i][/color] The other subjets I'm more or less agree with you, and I find interesting but not the most important to improve the site. More critics and more originality in our job is needed (not sure to do for me,...but I will try...). Hasta la vista,
10-02-2009
89 post(s)
[quote=Xavis]Francis has said: [color=#0000FF][i]4. CRITIQUE MORE: one trend I've noticed (and participated in )I consists in NOT COMMENTING on a pic that doesn't float your boat. WRONG! Worst thing we could do. We should speak out frankly at such times, it is the only way we can help the photog. By staying quite, we are behaving in a typical Japanese way (saying nothing and hoping the "bad thing" goes away).[/i][/color] I think that this one of the main things to change. I'm agree with you and I begin with my self...to critic more, and to critic also when I'm not agree with the picture. I think that this kind of critic it's the more complicated because we have to better analize the picture and what we think about it. At the same time as you say is the better way to improve the photog. I will do it better. ,[/quote] I am quite discoraged from giving such critiques anymore, more than of few occassions I have been either critisized for it or the photos are removed and all goes to waste. I agree with your other observations Francis.
10-02-2009
89 post(s)
[quote=El Inglés] Turning to the fundamental concept of the site, that of the project. I recall some discussions on TE a couple of years back where some of us felt constrained by the single image concept. A site offering a project-based theme seemed the answer. For some here, it has indeed proved the answer but I think they are quite few and far between (I could be wrong but it seems to me that the most successful here have worked - or are working - as at least semi-pros, used to greater discipline). Others (like me) just can't get to grips with shooting projects. Essentially, the rest of us end up with a collection of disparate, single images even when the intent was to create a coherent project. May I therefore propose that PH offers a separate gallery for individual images to complement the existing projects? I think we're old enough and wise enough not to let such a gallery replicate TE. And, while thinking out of the box, why not limit projects to no more than 10 images (as you hint, more sometimes means repetition if not quantity over quality)? A third PH offer (and I think it was suggested a year or so ago by someone) would be to introduce another gallery intended to represent long-term projects, compiled over months if not years (these should consist of at least 50 images). Just my two Eurocents. Happy for all I've said to be shot down. :yas: edited by El Inglés on 10/02/2009 edited by El Inglés on 10/02/2009[/quote] very interesting idea IMO worth considering. :king2:
10-02-2009
48 post(s)
[quote=Furachan] 1. MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT 2. LET'S MOVE UP TO 800 pixels 3. BE ADVENTUROUS 4. CRITIQUE MORE 5. SHOW SOME GUTS [/quote] Salut Francis, C'est un joli texte. Sorry. Nice thread you've started here. As usual, I have real pleasure reading you and that's why I regularly step into your [i]Intro[/i] page to check out the latest news from Tokyo from which, I confess, I've learnt a lot these past few years. Bravo. As for your actual proposals, without really having any constructive alternative, I do not share a single one of them. 1.) [i]Make every shot count[/i] (in the sense you put it), and in a few months you'll have only two or three members posting, because no more than two or three members are able to keeep up a full project with a collection of outstanding standalones. I even think that you're signing your own retrieval from the site with this one. Besides, we have debated it already, a project is about some sort of a link between different images, where their individual intrisic value matters less than their single contribution for a collective coherency. Where is gone your (very logical) diatribe about [i]transitions shots[/i] among other arguments about the value of collective above individual?? 2.) I personally think that 800 pixels rather than 750, won't change [b]anything[/b] in the site dynamics. Ok, that's just a personal opinion, no harm intended. Perhaps you're right. I do not think so, at all. A bad photograph will be bad at any size, as well as a bad project. As an example, Animesh's project with panoramic views taken in the US is outstanding as is, and it's quality is already [b]obvious[/b] at the sizes permitted by the site. 3.) Be adventurous and so what? You want us all to become part of the famous Maciek's flying circus? Of course we need to grow,and myself have been doing the exactly same thing for already three years now. But what's the problem of trying to perfect what we have started to know well, before stepping into traitorous seas? Do you think that any Bocuse, who has become an acceptable cook in french cuisine , should start teppenyaki just to grow further? Have you ever heard about our old Peter's principle? Learning to grow has nothing to do with trying anything, or everything we have at hand. Besides, I even think that growing is much more about understanding one's limits than trying permanently to reach the stars. This doesn't mean we shouldn't quit our comfort zone, but it should be done intelligently and according to the rythm of each one. 4.) Yeah, critique more and see your critiques vanished in less time you took to write them. Then wait that someone will tell you that if your critque led to the deletion of a photograph, then it's only a sublimation of your outstanding capacity of analysis, from which you should be proud of (even if it's written proof is gone forever, meanwhile). Bullsh*t. If you ask me, individual comments of photographs should be forbidden before the criticer has written a pertinent critique on a whole project. But that would mean that either you post your project as a whole and get immediate feedback, either you post it by singles and wait until the end without having a single comment. The site would be a boredom, euh? Depends. If PH reaches a critical number of members, this could be a very positive alternative to the actual site rules, really putting forward projects before standalones. Besides, not having individual negative critiques would perhaps help you not to delete a single photograph before you'd reach the end of your project, hence asking for much more thoughtful uploads that would avoid you many regrets. 5.) I do not understand what you mean by [i]guts[/i]. Do you mean something like Polonaise's blood and saliva, or is it a bit more hygienic? Gal
10-02-2009
290 post(s)
Salut et désolé du peux de participation de ma part en ce moment, du a une charge de travail. Aussi désolé que ce texte soit en Français, mais mon anglais étant mauvais, que je ne peux exprimer réellement ce que je ressens. peu être une âme charitable fera la traduction, ou une brève traduction. Avant de commencer l---------l cette petite ligne mesure environ 50pixels !! donc 750 ou 800 le monde ne changera pas pour 50 pixels de plus, Si cela devait être le cas je vous en mettrais 200 de plus madame. plus sérieusement 800 pixels ne passent pas dans la partie allouée à la photo. c'est pas la taille qui fait l'image. Je lis tout ce qui se dit et je constate que nous ne satisferont jamais personne, parce que personne n'est jamais satisfait. Pour moi Photoholik est une place simple pour montrer des photos et échanger des commentaires avec des gens voir des amis. bien sur Photoholik n'est pas parfait et ne le sera jamais, puisque ce site à été conçu et fait pour le fun. le but premier étant de montrer des travaux photos sous forme de projets ou de simple image. Personnellement à la création et à la conception du site, je ne pensais pas faire un site techniquement très compliqué, même si je sais que notre équipe de dev. est capable de le faire et ils l'ont prouvés. Mais la matière première de ce site est la photo et une bonne photo reste une bonne photo même sur un site qui n'offre pas toutes les fonctions rêvées. Mais je dois me tromper puisque que le site ne semble pas satisfaire la demande générale. je vous aime bien tous, et vous considère comme des amis. Vous avez tous beaucoup de talent. mais je vais devoir m'excuser, mon temps libre ne me permettra pas de satisfaire vos demandes, et certainement les demandes futures. je me rends compte avec tristesse que lorsque l'on donne de son temps bénévolement, il y a toujours à redire et on ne satisfait jamais. Amicalement Simon
11-02-2009
180 post(s)
[quote=flydragon]Salut et désolé du peux de participation de ma part en ce moment, du a une charge de travail. Aussi désolé que ce texte soit en Français, mais mon anglais étant mauvais, que je ne peux exprimer réellement ce que je ressens. peu être une âme charitable fera la traduction, ou une brève traduction. Avant de commencer l---------l cette petite ligne mesure environ 50pixels !! donc 750 ou 800 le monde ne changera pas pour 50 pixels de plus, Si cela devait être le cas je vous en mettrais 200 de plus madame. plus sérieusement 800 pixels ne passent pas dans la partie allouée à la photo. c'est pas la taille qui fait l'image. Je lis tout ce qui se dit et je constate que nous ne satisferont jamais personne, parce que personne n'est jamais satisfait. Pour moi Photoholik est une place simple pour montrer des photos et échanger des commentaires avec des gens voir des amis. Amicalement Simon[/quote] Simon: Please do not misunderstand me (no one else has so far including Gal who disagrees (cogently) with every single thing I wrote. Let me quote to you the famous line from the movie "Good Will Hunting": IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT! Let me say it again in case you are hard of hearing: IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. Indeed I make it perfectly clear that it is up to ALL OF US to shake the lethargy that seems to permeate the site. You, Simon, as founder, have done your share God knows and no one could ask for more. By the way if we are going to talk about persona contributions I would lke to humbly suggest that no one does more than I do to ANIMATE this site - I participate vigorously at all levels (including, unfortunately "deletions" ;o))) The fact that I am also a MODERATOR (something few people probably realize) is besides the point - I have volunteered an enormous amount of time writing to silent photogs, urging them to participate, encouraging young photogs going through tough periods, you name it, and everyone knows this is true. And it is because of this proven dedication and commitment to the site that I dared write the above. Simon, dont me a martyr, man, no one is blaming you. I'll say it one more time, just like Robin WIllimas in the movie: "IT'S NOT YUR FAULT" But...there is something amiss and I would liek to hear from more current (or absent) photogs who also sense this, whether they agree with my suggestions or not. edited by Furachan on 11/02/2009 edited by Furachan on 11/02/2009
11-02-2009
290 post(s)
Francis A aucun moment je ne culpabilise, je ne suis pas sur que tu aies bien lu ou compris mon message. je ne vois pas pourquoi je culpabiliserais. mon message ne doit et ce n'est pas sont but, faire un débat. je donne ici simplement mon opinion mon point de vue et c'est tout. Et bien sur ce n'est en aucun cas une attaque envers un membre, juste un pont de vue et un constat. Non bien sur je ne suis pas dur d'oreille j'ai lu ce qui avait été écrit, il y a du bon et des choses que je ne trouve pas bonnes. Si c'est pas trop abuser et si tu as un peu de temps pour traduire mon précédent message. amicalement Simon edited by flydragon on 11/02/2009
11-02-2009
180 post(s)
At Simon's request, I will translate his initial contribution to this thread below: Simon wrote: Hi and sorry for my lack of presence on the site at this time, due to a heavy workload. Sorry also to write this in French but my English is not strong enough for me to fully express what I feel. Perhaps a charitable soul will come up with a translation, or a brief summary. Before I start [----------] this tiny line measures around 50 pixels!! therefore 750 or 800, the world will not change for 50 pixels plus or minus. If that were the case, I'd gladly give you 200 more. More seriously 800 pixels do not pas in the part allocated to the photo, size doesn't make the image. I read all the entries and I realize hat we will never satisfy everyone, because no one is ever satisfied. FOr me Photoholik is a simple space to show photos and exchange views with other people (friends). Of corse Photoholik is not perfectand wil never be, since the site was conceived for fun, the primary goal being to display work, photographs either as projects or single images. Personally when I first conceived of this site, I didn't have in mind a technically complex site, even though I know that our technical team is perfect capable of such, they have proven it. But the core material of this site is the photograph, and a good photo is still a good photo even if a site doesn't provide all the features one could wish for. I seem to have got it wrong because people are not satisfied. I lke you all and consider yo as friends. You are all very talented, but I'm going to have to excuse myself (my lack of free time will not allow me to accede to your demands, and certainly future requests. I am saddened to find that even when one gives of one's time voluntarily, there are complaints and one can never fully satisfy. Kind regards, Simon
11-02-2009
180 post(s)
Simon, Let me clarify once more: NO ONE IS BLAMING YOU. My point concerns photographers only, that is all of us who contribute regularly. I am not basically complaining about the structure of the site in any way (The 50 pixels is a very minor point, okay?) My primary concern is with the level of photos one sees on Holik these days for the most part, the COMPLACENCY that I sense there, the lack of INTENSITY. I don't understand why you feel targeted here, Simon, I am addressing the community at large, in a bid to improve content, including my own pictures. This is just a continuation of an earlier thread with Luko and everybody, calling for greater creativity, so we can "break out of the mold", you know...? The site itself, the structure, the design, all that is perfectly fine in my view and I am very grateful for the opportunity to contribute here, bt there is a marked lack of VITALITY in the output from photographers including myself!) and I think we need to address that. So really it has nothing to do with you, Simon - this is an artistic crisis if you will, not a structural or administrative one. Hope this makes things clearer.
11-02-2009
75 post(s)
...Following with this subject, I don't think that the site needs more structural changes. I think that with the last subject about projets, awards, etc...it was enought for the moment, and i think that the moderateurs has really well understand and really well work. I think that Holik has the good main structure at my point of view. For me what needs to improve is the sharing between photographers. I think that this is what can make advance the site making every one to post more or just to follow to post. If there are many feed backs about what we do, concerning to the pictures and concerning to the projets I think that makes the photographer to follow to work. If there aren't comments it's not easy to follow, because to post on the web it becames as to look his own pictures on his computer, no feedback, is less pleausure to post. For this reason I think that the changes has to became on the side of the users. Concerning to the comment of Homerhomer, concerning to the critics I'm agree with you. [color=#0000FF][i]Xavis wrote: Francis has said: 4. CRITIQUE MORE: one trend I've noticed (and participated in )I consists in NOT COMMENTING on a pic that doesn't float your boat. WRONG! Worst thing we could do. We should speak out frankly at such times, it is the only way we can help the photog. By staying quite, we are behaving in a typical Japanese way (saying nothing and hoping the "bad thing" goes away). I think that this one of the main things to change. I'm agree with you and I begin with my self...to critic more, and to critic also when I'm not agree with the picture. I think that this kind of critic it's the more complicated because we have to better analize the picture and what we think about it. At the same time as you say is the better way to improve the photog. I will do it better. I am quite discoraged from giving such critiques anymore, more than of few occassions I have been either critisized for it or the photos are removed and all goes to waste.[/i][/color] I think that it's not fun to do a comment telling why we don't like a picture, and after the picture is deleted. I think that only really bad pictures must to be deleted. Or I think that we can delete the pictures when we have finished the projet, but not at the beginining. I think it can be interesting to see the evolution of the projet, and to see how works the interaction between the photographer and the critics. Hasta la vista, edited by Xavis on 11/02/2009
11-02-2009
49 post(s)
In case of any misunderstanding, no-one - Simon above all - should take my earlier comments about increasing the number and type of galleries in PH as a criticism of the existing site. PH is one of the very best photosites on the web (and there are many if one cares to look for them). I merely offered my suggestions as ways to encourage more people (existing members for the most part) to participate while at least maintaining the present level of image quality. As I also said before, Simon and our other colleagues on the technical side provide the site and maintain it without a financial contribution from us. I would like to agree with Francis and some others that we have it within ourselves to offer more variety but I cannot see how. I for one will never take photographs of flowers and insects for example, although to do so would certainly push me out of my comfort zone (and probably right into the boredom zone!). We are who we are and perhaps we're too set in our photographic ways to change. Moreover, there are probably only so many ways to take street images and we've probably already exhausted them between us. Even Brian - although I have nothing but admiration for what Bush would call his cojones - is doing nothing new in his latest project. As he is first to acknowledge, he's following the lead of Bruce Gilden - and Gilden would probably acknowledge Francis's hero, Winogrand, as his inspiration. All things considered, maybe it's best to accept what PH is - a club of friends who want to share photographs in a relaxed atmosphere ('cheese on toast' as Francis put it). Those who need an added challenge perhaps should look at 1x.com (the former OnExposure) where submissions have to be approved by fellow members before being posted. From what I recall, 'lack of originality' is a reason for rejection.
12-02-2009
48 post(s)
[quote=flydragon]je vous aime bien tous, et vous considère comme des amis. Vous avez tous beaucoup de talent. mais je vais devoir m'excuser, mon temps libre ne me permettra pas de satisfaire vos demandes, et certainement les demandes futures. je me rends compte avec tristesse que lorsque l'on donne de son temps bénévolement, il y a toujours à redire et on ne satisfait jamais. Amicalement Simon[/quote] Tu veux dire que tu fermes boutique? C'est-à dire, clé sous le paillasson et avis de non recevoir? Je peux comprendre ta "déception" ou ton "découragement", mais pensais-tu réellement pouvoir gérer un site de ce type en faisant abstraction de l'ego, parfois discret mais jamais insignifiant (prends-en note), de l'apprenti photographe qui veut devenir Calife à la place du Calife? Balivernes! Dans le cadre du développement actuel du Web, soit tu assures en termes de différenciation, soit tu meurs. Moi (comme d'autres), j'attends parce que je te connais (...) depuis quatre ans et te fais confiance. Par ailleurs, je ne nourris aucune ambition/illusion en matière de photographie. Penses-tu que tous les nouveaux adhérents éprouveront la même patience ou condescendance? Que dalle! Le manque de feedback ne nourrit pas l'ego et, par conséquent, se révèle manifestement insatisfaisant. La vérité, bien que difficile à accepter, est qu'à terme tout le monde s'en foutra du temps de bénévolat que tu consacreras à ce site. On te demandera d'assurer et de répondre à la demande (sachant que la demande est hétérogène, pour compliquer le tout). Gal
12-02-2009
290 post(s)
Non Gal je n'ai jamais dis que je mettais le clef sous le paillasson, parce que la clef c'est pas moi qui la possède moi j'ai un double, au même titre que Nono, Steph, Jean, Eric. J'ai simplement exprimé mon humeur. déçu oui un peu, découragé Non !! Non je ne pensais pas et je ne pense pas gérer l'Ego des gens, je pensais AVEC UN GROUPE D'AMIS faire un lieu simple et sympa ou des gens sympa peuvent montrer leurs travail photographique en toute simplicité. [i]La vérité, bien que difficile à accepter, est qu'à terme tout le monde s'en foutra du temps de bénévolat que tu consacreras à ce site. [/i] tu as sans doute raison, et je dois être un garçon bien naïf, mais je vais tout de même garder ma naïveté, sinon j'aurais peur de perdre au change. A suivre .. Amicalement
17-02-2009
180 post(s)
I wish I had NEVER started this stupid thread. Honestly. It is..the wrong thread. Half-baked ideas on my part, shot down in flames by Gal in full Savanarola mode ;o) I guess I asked for it, Gal (I am not resentful, my friend, you were right). Look: HERE'S the thread we should be in now: HOW CAN WE GROW AS PHOTOGS WHEN THE PREMISE FOR BEING HERE IS: "WE'VE ALREADY ARRIVED?" You know where I learned my "chops" so to speak? On Trekearth, from Luko and Maciej and yes, bloody Simon in kinder days and everybody else. We had workshops, hints, Luko taught me this great sharpening recipe, you remember? Then we enter the hallowed grey halls lof this neo-Magnum here and guess what? NO MORE LEARNING. I hear people say stupefyingly dumb things like: "By now we all know what we're about. We're all grown ups." NO WE'RE NOT, fellas! And when it comes to "projects" we're neophytes. This my brothers and sisters is what we should be concentrating our feverish minds on: HOW TO HELP THE OTHER GUY AND GET HELP because you know what, most of us need it. We're in ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT here, don't you see? Let me give you a perfect example. As you all know by now I have taken a detour, a walk down memory lane through the apocalyptic debris that is Trekearth. Well on my first visit, after my first upload, some young pup I'd never even heard of before pops up outta nowhere and says "Not bad, I like the feel and the colors but I would suggest a strong CROP here and here. I have made a workshop for you." And you know what, brothers? It was DAMN good! I learned more from it than I have slip-sliding around here for these last how many months. Of course I was a little shocked that this "tyke" hadn't recognize me, the GREAT FURACHAN, the cyber star with all those Favs from yesteryear but honestly, it was the best thing. A simple workshop. Time and time again when the idea was broached about "helping each other" or "tutorials" some bloody voice piped up (might even have been my own...) and said "Hey, we're all grown up here. If you dunno your aperture from your @ss, you shouldn't be here" and other macho drivel. Gal, Javier and all of you who read this - LET'S REVISIT this question because I see STASIS, many of us are running in place, waiting for direction. So let's develop that aspect more. Let's help each other grow... What do you say? Amen. ps. If any of the above makes eminent sense, please excuse me, I'll be spouting nonsense again very soon, I promise you ;o) edited by Furachan on 17/02/2009 edited by Furachan on 17/02/2009
17-02-2009
75 post(s)
Salut francis, je me rend compte que je dois ameliorer beaucoup mon anglais, parceque du moment qu'on s'exprime plus finement je ne parviens pas à comprendre. Please, peut tu me treduire juste ce que tu me demandes en ton dernier commentaire, car je ne suis pas sur d'avoir bien compris. Desolé pour te demander un peu plus de temps, mais j'ai envie de bien suivre ton commentaire et je ne veut pas rester sans le comprendre bien. Hasta la vista amigo, Javier
17-02-2009
180 post(s)
Hola Javier! Toutes mes excuses, mon ami - je disais donc... que plutot de parler de "courage" d"originalite" etc, on ferait peut-etre mieux de commencer par s'entraider avec des "workshops", des avis techniques et autres parcequ'en verite - nous ne sommes pas Pro pour la pluspart, et pour avancer il n'y a rien de mieux que les bons conseils et les seminaires. C'est assez different de ce que j'avancais auparanvent. Je crois que la reponse tres ferme de Gal m'a mis dans le bon chemin. Je conclus donc en exhortant la communaute entiere a repenser cette question des "conseils", workshops etc. pour precisement briser cette stase, cette constipation qui existe reellement. Et je ne dis aucunement que cela est la responsabilite de l'adminstration ;o) Hasta la prxima amigo! Francis
17-02-2009
75 post(s)
merci Francis, maintenant j'ai bien compris, et je suis tout à fait d'accord avec toi. Je vais le dire en Anglais le reste pour les anglophones. I'm totaly agree with you, and as I have said on the topic about "MORE PROJETS NEED", now it's time to the members to do something else, not to the administrators. hasta la vista, javier
17-02-2009
48 post(s)
‘lo Francis, I also would like to renew with apprenticeship. Go back to the old school classroom and keep my ears wide open to the master’s lesson. Problem is I suspect we both haven’t grown much. I’m not really sure that is the purpose of this site. There’s a filter on candidates to become new members. All those who make it through don’t seem to me as being very receptive about any [i]“you should crop a little further to left”[/i] comment. Some may even appear as pedantic, or just looking after an elitist photography site, free of [i]“sh*t” [/i]photography as we see in many others, even though the concept, colour and smell of sh*t may differ for each one of us. I’d be satisfied, at this point, with some technical improvements such as new features to best comment projects and mainly a clear direction on how to make that (I mean answering to the questions: “How to make a pertinent project’s critique, what criteria should be considered, how to make others benefit from my opinion”), and at the same time an easy way to do that without having to go through too much web pages. Best Gal edited by galeota on 17/02/2009 edited by galeota on 17/02/2009 edited by galeota on 17/02/2009